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Post by almagata on Apr 17, 2017 1:51:00 GMT
I have been watching the series "The Killing Season" on Amazon the past few days. Season 1 is a serial investigation of the LISK murders that evolves into research on similar killings across the country. Some of the people that are interviewed are hardcore Websleuth participants, some are law enforcement or ex-law enforcement and others are people who are impacted by the crimes.
Episode 6 has some very interesting information. First they interview one of the retired VICAP managers, Gregory Cooper, and he explains why VICAP is such a huge opportunity lost for networking serial cases across the nation. The Cooper states that there are 17,000 police agencies in the United States and that none of them are required to enter information into VICAP. He describes VICAP as "minimally effective" because data entry into VICAP of unsolved cases in not mandated.
The VICAP segment narrative was followed in the episode with a phone interview with convicted long haul truck serial killer John Robert Williams. Williams says that he was part of a group nicknamed "Netahe" which is an Apache word for avowed killer (according to him - I've not verified this). The Netahe were all truckers who would abduct women and share them among their group. The women were generally sex workers in the truck stops. These woman often ended up missing or were found dead.
We have been eluding that there were networks of serial killers around the world. The John Robert Williams interview is the first glimpse for me that this is more than a theory.
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Post by albion on Apr 17, 2017 2:09:04 GMT
If what my friend described, with the house in the country where it was a local cop running a forced prostitution ring, then I wonder what do these people do with the women after their usefulness is gone?
I was watching that story on the mob in Vegas. One thing I keep thinking about was one of the answers by a mob leader. They asked him why he engaged in bootlegging. He said, "If you didnt drink it, I wouldnt have bootlegged it."
Is it only owners of snuff films and pedophile porn seem to share in the ultimate responsibility of the crimes.
Is Amazon worth signing up for? The did the Man in the High Castle didnt they? Phillip K Dick is one of my all time favorite authors.
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Post by almagata on Apr 17, 2017 3:20:28 GMT
I think we already know the answer to the usefulness question. These victims are seen as a commodity so when they are no longer needed they are disposed of. I doubt they are allowed to join society again.
Supply and demand; it applies to all markets but I don't think that serial killers are filming all their interactions nor do I think that most market their films but some do imagine. I tend to think that the fantasy of a serial killer probably is very personal and that sharing that intimacy with other people is not common. I think they would not want to risk any ridicule (and I"m not sure ridicule is exactly the right word - maybe assessment or critique is a better choice). I do think serial killers are aware that they are different but don't want people to view them as unusual. We like to dehumanize serial killers because they frighten us but I'm sure they have redeeming qualities. I have to imagine that most serial killers have trust issues which helped evolve their secretiveness. (I swear, I was not influence in my opinion by Dexter)
Your question on Amazon. You don't have to be a Prime member to view videos on Amazon but I am a Prime member because it makes sense for me. I buy ALOT of stuff on-line at Amazon so after a couple of purchases, the membership has paid for itself in the free shipping. Why should I drive all over town to find things when it can be delivered to my front door? Shows like the Killing Season are extra. I think it was $12.00 but I don't have cable so if I purchase a series like that once a month, I'm still spending much less than I would with cable plus if I want to go back and watch the show in the future, it is in my library. I am watching Man in the High Castle right now. I've watched 5-6 episodes so far. Phillip K Dick was a complicated guy that most people are unaware of his impact on the media we have seen in the last 50 years.
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Post by albion on Apr 17, 2017 4:19:56 GMT
I went ahead and signed up for prime. I am watching Man in the High Castle right now.
I go through and do a lot of searches for the various MO's. I have been to some extremely disgusting sites. But the people doing the shows, and I am talking about bdsm, seem so proud of their work. Some of them are extremely scary and efficient. Others are oafs. But is there some kind of quality which makes these men and women want to do this? There are some of people on the videos who you can tell are professional people.
And is there some kind of fantasy that they have to do these actions for real? I cant see them spending so much time fantasizing about it without ever dreaming of doing it for real. And if you do it once, or if you are involved some how, then how do you get out of it? And if you wanted to trust someone, would a video of them engaged in this activity be good insurance for the future?
Like the MacDonald murder in San Francisco with Abbott and PAT. If they did make a snuff film, or had some one important there with them, that would seriously complicate the issue.
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Post by almagata on Apr 17, 2017 16:31:19 GMT
Wow, the last third of episode 6 of the Killing Season is an interview with Heather who was the woman that killed Neal Falls. She is so lucky she was able to shoot the guy.
The last segment is an interview with Thomas Hargrove of the Murder Accountability Project and the stats on solving homicides have been falling horribly over the past 50 years. He has complied data on serial murders that no law enforcement agency in the US has ever compiled.
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Post by albion on Apr 17, 2017 22:12:46 GMT
Hey I am on episode two right now. It is very good. Good advertisement for WS in it so far.
My thought so far is that LISK is a pimp. Luring the independents to a call out and then abducting them, getting them hooked on drugs in a house, and then discarding them when they run out of usefulness or keep trying to fight with the people running the house. LE might be involved as paid protection for the house. I know they did that for the bars and gambling spots in NYC. I worked as a bartender in NYC while I was there. In one we had guys who would come in after midnight and openly have powdered heroin on the tables in the pool room. And in another we had those Cherry 2000 gambling machines which made more profit in one night then the bar did the whole month. I was told if anything happened, dont worry about the cash register, but make sure the machines stay. the cops knew what was going on. And there was a local mobster called the Pope, who gave protection for all the bars that had his machines in them.
If it were me, I would start going to the houses where they keep these women, I think that is where the LISK is. I dont think it is so much a thrill of killing, but a way he used to get rid of the bodies of girls who had either been abused or were a risk of ratting them out.
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Post by almagata on Apr 17, 2017 23:20:43 GMT
You maybe correct and that scenario would fit. I have heard that pimps don't like women working independently. It also would explain the lack of enthusiastic investigation if the police are aware and protecting the pimps.
Personally, I wish they would just legalize prostitution and then they could register, get health checks, stop working in the fringes of society, pay taxes, and have their own unions. We are never going to stop it so why don't we decide to manage it better. Nevada seems to not have burned to the ground with it being legalized.
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Post by albion on Apr 18, 2017 0:25:21 GMT
If a pimp/drug dealer was running out of women, wouldnt it be a good way to find more? If they are on craigslist they are independent. And if they do bring a bodyguard, are they really going to stand up to someone like Kahlill(sp?) and his gang? I have been to the bad parts of Queens and Brooklyn. Bedstuy was like a third world nation. The only way I went was early in the morning. If I had to guess I would say it was probably an Italian run business, and it was paying off the local police. Even the fire dept was on the take in NYC. They were the ones you went to to burn your building down for the insurance. It might be that the local LE have already figured out who was dumping the bodies and done something about it. But they cant say it in public.
Amazing that the only way we would have found out about this is because they didnt dispose of the bodies better.
The laws are strange. In Texas there is a dry county and has been for a long time. But everyone there drinks. They just have to drive to the next county to buy their liquor. And the cops hang out along that road and catch the drunks. And the next county a three liquor stores right on the county line. And the owners dont pay bribes to the cops or the politicians, they pay them to the clergy of the dry county, who then make sure their followers vote for the county to be dry every year.
Its like the Gambling in Vegas and OK and LA. If CA and TX allowed gambling, then Vegas and OK Indian Nations would go bankrupt. And TX and CA could keep all that money in taxes and jobs in state. People are gambling anyway, the law isnt stopping them, it is just making them go farther away to do it legally.
I dont know about Prostitution or drugs. Drugs alters the mind of the taker. It diminishes their capacity to make decisions. Maybe prostitution isnt as bad, but combine the two and it is bad. Maybe an age requirement would be needed.
I like the idea of making a place out in the desert somewhere. Sectioning off a big area and then allowing people to go there and live, but they have to pay a fee to get in there, and they cant get out unless they test negative for drugs. If they want to do drugs then they can go there and be safely away from society. But they either have to have money to get in and stay, or they have to work. And hopefully they wont influence another generation with the idea to do drugs.
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Post by almagata on Apr 18, 2017 0:57:11 GMT
It certainly would calm the world down if all the drug users were all co-located even if we paid for their drugs, housing and paid them a stipend.
I personally feel that if you test positive for opiods or meth (maybe some others) that you are a danger to yourself and others and should be confined for 90 days if you have been arrested three times. To me that means, you are not making good decisions and are causing problems for society. I think people that are in these situations need some extended time to sober up and for medical staff to evaluate them if they have an underlying mental disorder that needs to be treated.
In California, the Indian casinos have gotten so large that they are hurting Las Vegas somewhat but the powers in Las Vegas are partnering with the Indian tribes, so in reality, they are probably making the same money it just is not all coming in thru that one city. I don't think the Indian tribes pay taxes to the state.
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Post by albion on Apr 18, 2017 2:07:14 GMT
Yep. Same thing here. The Indian Tribes dont pay the same taxes. When I first moved here all there was was a little bingo parlor. Now it is one of the biggest casinos in the country. I moved here to get away from all of that. And they hire people at 35 hrs a week to not pay benefits. Go figure.
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Post by almagata on Apr 18, 2017 12:08:22 GMT
At least inequality is equal all over the land. :-)
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Post by albion on Apr 25, 2017 8:24:09 GMT
Wow, the last third of episode 6 of the Killing Season is an interview with Heather who was the woman that killed Neal Falls. She is so lucky she was able to shoot the guy. The last segment is an interview with Thomas Hargrove of the Murder Accountability Project and the stats on solving homicides have been falling horribly over the past 50 years. He has complied data on serial murders that no law enforcement agency in the US has ever compiled. I am on episode three now. I have never been a fan of true crime, and this is a little tedious for me. The drama that the shows try to add irritates me. But now I find myself thinking about the LISK more often. They have touched on a couple things that I find very interesting but then move from them rather quickly. The Doctor. Hackett? The out of work financial advisor. The police chief who keeps denying everything and seems to have his own storyline he is trying to sell. The landscaper and aquarium guy committed suicide. And then down in Atlantic City. Prostitution is an illegal business right? No contracts. What is there besides drugs, money and fear to control the business? The carrots and the stick. What happens when one of the girls gets out of line somehow? To a sociopath pimp, they are just a commodity. The one thing that I think is not random, is the LE response in both areas. Remember when the Hollywood Madams were caught? They had lists of important people that they provided women for. Much like the what people were afraid of when Pellicano got busted. Those lists might be the thing that is making LE so quiet about this. Here is a scenario. A girl is prostituting in her hometown at a young age, and then leaves for Vegas, Atlantic City, NYC, Florida and stops talking to her family because of shame and disapproval. She is taking drugs, and gets hooked up with a pimp. Her only contacts are with the pimp, the other girls, and her clients. Something happens, either with a john, or with the pimp, and the body needs to be taken away. Who is going to report her missing? The girls would be too afraid. The pimp knows it would be bad for business. And her clients are not going to involve themselves. If pimp is a sociopath it might happen more often than not, and he might develop a system for discarding the bodies. A special place and method. It isnt that he is going and finding them, they are already working for him illegally. It is just part of the business. They belong to him. Almost like slaves. And I wonder if he makes an example out of one, leaves something with them that he knows the other girls will recognize, if that makes his control even stronger. Especially if the girls know that LE will do nothing to to solve the case? Or if he makes it look like a serial killer did it. Or if LE does their best to make it look like a serial killer did it. I have to believe that the higher priced call girls are going to places that the rich and powerful men are at. So who is going to report her missing? The family might not have seen her in years anyway and wouldnt know to be looking for her. Its strange to see the same LE response in the LISK case, that we have seen in the GSK case. I have seen some message boards where the LE actually post on their progress or lack of it. but not with these cases. Why?
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Post by albion on Apr 26, 2017 1:26:29 GMT
Alright I am not getting all caught up in the LISK. I just wont do it. But...this is one of my favorite Nick Drake songs. It has that eerie feel too, like the Killing Season should have used it in their episode talking about him.
"River Man
Betty came by on her way Said she had a word to say About things today And fallen leaves
Said she hadn’t heard the news Hadn’t had the time to choose A way to lose But she believes
Gonna see the river man Gonna tell him all I can About the plan For lilac time
If he tells me all he knows About the way his river flows And all night shows In summertime
Betty said she prayed today For the sky to blow away Or maybe stay She wasn’t sure
For when she thought of summer rain Calling for her mind again She lost the pain And stayed for more
Gonna to see the river man Gonna to tell him all I can About the ban On feeling free
If he tells me all he knows About the way his river flows I don’t suppose It’s meant for me
Oh, how they come and go"
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Post by albion on Apr 26, 2017 1:43:10 GMT
I have posted about this before. But no one seems to care all that much. When the Killing Season got to the episode about Neal Falls, I was a little taken back. There are sites on the web that show exactly what he was doing. In one video two guys break into a house. One goes in first and throws a dog catching loop around a young girls neck. And then video shows how to tie her, and then put her in one of those tubs that Neal Falls brought with him. In the video one guy carries out the tub at the end. No way someone would think a person could fit in that tub. I really liked what they did with West Mesa killings. And Hargrove was someone who seemed to know what he was doing.
I just cant understand how these people could up with this by themselves. Was anyone surprised that Neal Falls was a security guard? These monsters have a need for positions of power.
even though I live here in OK/TX, and have worked extensively in OK City, I havent seen the girls at the truck stops. I dont usually go to them because they are so crowded. I do remember a case up there when I was working there. They had her fliers all over OKC. Her friend had threatened to sell her to the sex trafficking, and then a couple days later she disappears. I cant remember the name so I cant look it up. That map that the FBI put together was so saddening.
And yet we feel the need to go police the world and we cant even protect our own children from evil right here in our own country.
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Post by albion on Apr 26, 2017 2:00:55 GMT
What would be funny and a lot of disgusting, would be to go to the truck stops and collect the pubic hairs out of the truckstop showers. Would that be illegal? Would it be terribly uncomfortable? Maybe they could get Hazmat to do it?
Maybe once everyone has computer logs, they might be able to use those to find out who was at the truck stops when the girls were last seen.
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